The Email Exchange: The Walking Dead Theory

Norman-Reedus-The-Walking-Dead-Killer-Within

What began as an innocent few lines to Heather Carrico, who got me to start watching The Walking Dead turned into a massive email fest about what will happen in tonight’s season finale. Email gold is what follows.

Kelen Conley: Who’s gonna die on Sunday

#1 – Herschel
I just don’t see him leaving the prison, I can’t. We talked about this.
#2 – Daryl
You’re gonna hate me for this one but his character arc seems to be ending with Merle dying.
#3 – Andrea
If she somehow lives through the Governor’s torture and makes it to season 4…I don’t know what I might do.
#4 – Carol/Judith/Maggie’s sister
If Daryl or Judith go then Carol can’t be far behind. The only way I see singing sister living is if she leaves before the battle starts.
#5 – Everyone in Tyreese’s party except Tyreese
They’ve pretty much made them expendable by not developing them much.

Who’s leaving before the war starts on Sunday

#1 – Glen & Maggie
I wonder if Herschel will perform the ceremony and then they decide to leave together…sounds so out of character for them but I could see it. But I doubt Maggie would leave if Herschel and less hot sister decide to stay.

I also have a strong feeling that we may go into season 4 with the group being down to Rick, Carl, Tyreese, Maggie, Glen, Michonne, and Daryl if they don’t kill him.

And the Governor’s not dying.

Heather Carrico: #1 Agree.  I think he’s a goner.  I’ll be really surprised if this is wrong.

#2 It’ll never effing happen.  From what the internet tells me, if they kill off Daryl, about 8 million watchers of their “record-breaking viewers” show will be GONE if they kill Daryl.  I know the writers have done some goofy stuff, but they’ll never alienate that much of their audience.  NEVER.

#3 Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.  I feel like she’s served her purpose.

#4 Carol won’t go either.  What I said about Daryl?  Those same 8 million folks want her to hook up with Daryl.  They won’t NOT give fans that at some point.  I see next season, them getting together and they’ll kill her off then.  As for Judith, I’m on the fence.  On one hand, I see it, on the other, I can’t see them doing it because it’s a baby.  And for whatever reason, it kind of ups the intensity that they have a baby to try to keep alive.  Maggie’s sister, I feel like she should be a goner, but I feel like a saw somewhere that she is getting bumped up to a regular cast member.  Besides, it’s only a matter of time before Carl is tapping that a**.

#5 Agreed.  I think there is a slight chance that they will keep the sister around, but it’s not a very good chance.  I’d say 20%.

#1  Maggie and Glen won’t leave because there is no way in h-e-double hockey sticks that Rick and the group can win any sort of war without them.  No way.  Beside the fact that he is stepping up to be a little more of a leader, she’s a badass.

I really don’t think that the death count is going to be as high as last season.  They had a LOT of extraneous characters on that farm.  And most of the characters have been more developed this season.  I do think there will be at least one “shocking” death, but I don’t think it’ll be some beloved character blood bath situation.

KC: Unless they fast forward a few years, Carl is at least 5 years away from getting that, zombie apocalypse or not.

I don’t really think they’ll kill Daryl or Carol but if we’re looking for a shocking death, I think it takes more than just Herschel. And we all know Rick is the main character, so he wouldn’t die.

I think the baby is a goner, they barely acknowledge her now, and the writer’s don’t want to deal with that. And if not Maggie sister becomes more of a regular, she needs to quit singing. It was cute when they found the prison but I’m over it. She needs to spread herself around if she wants to inspire hope.

The only reason I think Andrea makes it is because the writers like her character.

There’s no way they win the war period. The sneak peak from Talking Dead showed Woodbury busting through into the actual prison. I think the group has some form of plan (maybe they let out the walkers from other parts of the prison) but I still think Woodbury overruns them and they’re on the road again.

Maggie and Glen is the only romantic thing they have going for the show. Everybody else is just hooking up because it’s the end of the world. I feel like making sure they stay alive to come back in season 4 would be an option. And Rick said everyone had a vote in whether they stay or go.

I think more characters die than expected but last season did have a lot of stray characters. Maybe they’re banking on Tyreese’s group being taken out as the shock they’re looking for.

HC: That kid has to be 13 or so.  I, for one, know several people who lost their V-card at around that age.  (Dirty, dirty degenerates!)

I think Herschel would be shocking enough, honestly.  I mean, he’s the old, moral, voice of reason that Rick goes to for advice and it would destroy Maggie.  Plus, he lived through getting his leg cut off under the absolute worst of circumstances.

She does need to quit singing, or at least so much. But if they kill Herschel, I bet she at least cuts back on it.  I think the idea is that she does it for him.  You are horrible for saying that about her.

Ugh, the writers just need someone to make really bad decisions.  They can do that with anyone.  SHE DOESN’T HELP ANYONE AT ALL.  What’s to like?

I do think that corralling walkers is going to play into their plan.  And I bet they do better than expected.  I’m not sure if they’ll “win” per se, but I don’t think it’s going to be a blow-out and I bet they don’t leave for good.  If David Morrissey is coming back next season as the Governor, I really don’t think it’s going to be him chasing them all over Georgia.  I think he’s going to get his ass at least partially handed to him.  He’ll go back to Woodbury with his tail between his legs, torture the shit out of Andrea and try to re-group.  I think the point is for the group to make it look like they’ve left, but they are still there somewhere.  Element of surprise and not just with walkers.

Now that I think about it, I bet they do kill Tyreese’s sister.  And that’s what sets him off.  And gets him with Rick’s group somehow.  There’s another shocking death for you because it’ll eff Tyreese up so bad.

Also, Milton is a GONER.  And honestly, I’d like to see Rick’s group bring that Martinez or whatever the Hispanic guy’s name is.  Him and Daryl could be some sort of badass, zombie destroying duo.  But like Legolas and Gimli from Lord of the Rings.  Where it’s always a big penis measuring contest for zombie kills.  Could add a little levity.

Michonne-Danai-Gurira-Walking-Dead-Season-3-premiere-Seed-AMC

KC: (Wo)Man, I was looking at season 1 last night and Carl looked about 8, so I’d say he’s approaching 10 now…

Maybe it’s because after the Sophia (“I forgot to mention the walker kid I threw in my barn that could be the one you’re looking for”) incident, I never fully bought into Herschel. He’s a sweet man but that just wouldn’t be big enough for me.

She’ll have to, I wonder what direction they would take her though, especially since she considered opting out in season 2. Maybe she’ll cope okay at first but slowly lose her marbles in season 4 and turn on the group. That would be crazy interesting.

I don’t know (wo)man, Andrea has this annoying habit of staying alive. When she goes, it’ll be unexpected. But her remaining the Gov’s prisoner does appeal to me…

And the Gov won’t be a threat for awhile but I definitely think that if he does make it, Woodbury’s population will be decimated and he won’t be around again until end of Season 4 or Season 5. The idea of him punishing Andrea until we see him next would be awesome (just cause I hate her).

And they have to use the walkers to their advantage. One would think this whole thing started due to the government trying to weaponize dead soldiers, so the group using them for their intended purpose would be smart on their part. But they have to get out of that prison; it’s never been fully safe, even before the douchebag prisoner opened the other cell blocks.

Tyreese is definitely killing the one white guy whose wife died earlier this season, I can see it. I think his sister will take a bite or a bullet from a Woodbury person.

And Milton should be on the dead list. He would be an early kill though…unless he’s got some kind of plan that will lead to him being next season’s antagonist, but that’s a stretch.

And I love Martinez too. Been waiting on the Woodbury black guy to buy it but Martinez is a lot of fun. Couldn’t they be Vincent and Jules from Pulp Fiction though? You know I’m not a LOTR fan.

But on second thought, I really just despise the hobbit parts of those movies. Legolas and Gimli were badass.

HC: Chris seems to think Beth has the hots for Rick and is going to try to go in that direction.  That’d be sick since she’s clearly a teenager and he’s a grown-ass man.

It’ll get old after a while if Andrea is just his prisoner.  I mean, how much actual material can they glean from that?  Now, if there was some sort of Stockholm Syndrome deal taking place and she stays, that could be potentially interesting.  I’d still probably hate her though.

I think Woodbury’s population is going to be decimated.  And if they’re not killed, they are going to take off.  Or possibly push the Governor out?  He loses his power?  And it makes him really crazy?  All possible and interesting avenues to explore.  What if he goes off in the woods somewhere and loses his mind (even further) and plots some sort of crazy, backwood hermit revenge on everyone?  There is a good way to keep him around and the group still win.  And this could tie in with your whole Milton-as-leader option.

I’m not fully convinced that it was the government (or at least our government) weaponizing the dead that caused the whole thing.  I’m not fully unconvinced either though.  That helicopter sure makes it seem that way, but could it be a red herring?  That it was caused by an outside group attempting to weaponize?  Possibly a terrorist group?  And our government just found out about it?

I feel like they could make the prison safe.  If they got their heads out of their butts and also didn’t have to worry so much about any threat besides the walkers.  It’s certainly the safest place they’ve been other than the farm.  And they aren’t getting that lucky again.  Although, I always told Chris that staying in a rural setting is definitely the way to go in the case of a zombie takeover.

I agree with both your points about Tyreese and his sister.

Oh, that Woodbury black guy is getting it next episode, I’m sure.  He’s probably the one that’ll bite/shoot Tyreese’s sister.

Vincent and Jules didn’t have the ongoing fight about who could kill the most/kill the baddest.

Legolas and Gimli were badasses.  Same for Aragorn.  I also loved Eomer, but that’s partially because he was dreamy…but also a badass.

KC: Okay, okay. If you want Carl to bang other sister who will now be referred to as Beth, fine by me.

Beth has looked at Rick rather lustily a few times this season, especially since that whore wife of his croaked. If anybody comes at Rick that way though…it’s Michonne. I just have this feeling that they’ll at least hook up next season unless she gets with Tyreese.

I don’t want to see Andrea get tortured. I’d like for the Gov to leave her in the room to go fight the battle and then we don’t see her again for x amount of episodes. Her Stockholm Syndrome moment occurred when she didn’t kill him after her prison visit. She’s knows he’s insane now but I don’t know if she can legit escape him. And I’ll still hate her too.

I could see the Gov being pushed out if he’s not killed and Milton planning on taking things the original direction he and Phillip decided which was to rebuild society. There’s something not right about that boy though so his decent into madness could still be a direction possibility. Having the Gov completely stranded in the world would make for a great story as long as he’s kept away long enough for people to forget about him then BAM like Emeril.

I had completely forgotten about the helicopter until I watched episode 2 last night. I like the idea of it not being us, but I feel like America would be the dumbasses who screwed up the world. The idea of terrorists would be the most likely reason though.

Kirkman has always said he has no interest in telling the story of how everything happened but I feel like they’ll have no choice with television.

The prison would be the safest place…of boredom. Say they beat Woodbury, clean house over time, re-secure the fences and then what? You can’t have the group constantly defending the prison against all comers. They need to get out on the road, meet new people and all that jazz. And unfortunately, die.

Watching back those Atlanta episodes, cities are scary as shit when it comes to walkers. The threat level is definitely lessened in the country if you can defend your property…properly.

Vincent and Jules bitched at each other the whole movie. I’m sure they’ve had many bigger penis contests over their travels together.

I like Liv Tyler.

HC: I’m just saying, he wants it and it’s not outside the realm of possibility.  I do agree that Rick and Michonne will probably get something going on.  I feel like they may avoid a Tyreese/Michonne thing since they keep kind of coming under fire about race issues anyway.  Maybe make some sort of “see we can do an interracial relationship, we aren’t racist” statement.

I feel like there is a decent chance of them adding more new characters next season.  The group can’t just keep getting smaller or else it won’t even be a group anymore.  And if they all split off too much, it’ll be way too hard to follow everyone’s story.  Too expansive and no cohesion.

Hah, or if the Governor keeps her in that room, goes off to fight, something happens and he’s gone and no one knows she’s down there.  You know she’d figure out a way to survive that, but it could keep her “occupied” for a while.  She won’t be able to legit escape him.  She had it all taken care of at that warehouse and didn’t even bother to take the time to make sure he didn’t get out and wasn’t following her.  At least hide in the woods for a little bit to make sure he didn’t come out of there alive.

Well, not exactly forget about him, but just assume that he was killed in the battle and attempt to move on with their lives.  Under Milton’s charge.  Then he can pop out like, BOOM.  All crazy and feral.  And OUT FOR BLOOD.  (I just said that in my head with a very dramatic voice-over voice.)

I would, just for once, like to see a zombie movie where the outbreak wasn’t caused by some sort of government conspiracy or terrorist attack.  Even most of the zombie books I’ve read have been like that.  One exception is World War Z.  Started by the Chinese, but it was a legit infection issue. And they didn’t even know where it came from.  Now, the government did cover it up and that was how it spread, but it wasn’t directly caused by them.  (Don’t worry, I didn’t just spoil you for if you ever want to read that book.  All that is laid out pretty early. )  But that book is awesome and turns a lot of zombie clichés on their heads.

I’m with Kirkman.  I don’t think they ever do need to explicate on why/what caused the whole thing.  Part of the beauty of the show is that you aren’t omnipotent.  You are just as much in the dark as all the characters are.  And I’m afraid the TV writers will want to change that.  But the fact that Kirkman is so involved with the show may help that cause.

I’m not saying I have issue with Jules and Vincent.  They are just not the “couple” I think of when I’m trying to describe the kind of interaction I would expect from Daryl and Martinez.

Walking-Dead-Season-3-Midseason-Finale

KC: I was watching some of season 2 last night and kept wishing they had kept T-Dog around longer. I really feel like they misused his character and they could have told some decent stories with him. I think Daryl’s overwhelming popularity put a kibosh on all of that though.

Nikki could never watch the show because all she would say to me is how bad it makes society look that when the world goes to crap, women and minorities fall into their traditional roles without any issue (Glen and Michonne are the exceptions of course, but Maggie had to chew Glen out for him to get it).

Richonne (see what I did there) could be fun for a bit but they would have to just be hooking up behind everyone’s backs. I can’t see them holding hands and cuddling.

I think we’ll get new characters for the group next season since we got a whole town that is ruled by a McCrazy this season. I like new characters and learning a little bit of their stories before they inevitably get killed when you don’t expect it. And they better not break up the group anymore, I forgot how many people actually rolled into the CDC together until I rewatched it. They have 9 people now so depending on who makes it through the finale, they should keep it around that number.

Now that I slept on it though, I feel like Andrea does die in the finale. But I think she’ll escape and be the one to take down the Gov or at least turn the tide somehow before she bites it. I hate her but having her stuck and tortured off camera is just mean, even for me.

But you reminded me, HOW DID SHE NOT MAKE SURE HE WAS DEAD. SHE HAD HIM, HAD HIM, HAD HIM. And she goes skipping through the meadow like a big dummy. Stupid Andrea.

If the Gov does lay low then pops back up in Miltonbury, it will be a blood bath all around. I don’t even think AMC could show all those deaths. And I just really love the way Morrissey portrays the character so I feel like they would like the option of using him again unless he has some other projects coming up.

My zombie experience is limited to Zombieland and Shaun of the Dead so that’s why I go for the obvious blame the government clichés. Hell, it could have been a crystal meth cook gone wrong that started it all. And I do like that we’re in the dark about things as well, mostly because I love a good conspiracy/cover-up. And yeah, World War Z is needed. I don’t mind minor spoilers.

Well as long as Kirkman makes sure the writers don’t start torturing the characters for fun like he does in the comic book, I’m cool with everything staying in the dark. Jenner from season 1 was probably the closest we’ll get to any concrete answers and he barely knew anything. If anything, they might reveal what happened in the last season and I’d be okay with that.

Fine, Gimli and Legolas it is.

And one other note: I was watching the Sophia episode with Angel and Carol had no rights to ever blame Rick. If she had taught her child better, Sophia would have listened to Rick clearly say: STAY HERE. What that little dummy do, as soon as Rick and the walkers went the opposite direction, she left.

She deserved what she got. And Herschel still could have mentioned there was a kid walker in the barn.

They’re both dummies.

HC: I always found T-Dog totally expendable.  Like, I just didn’t care. I guess they could have maybe developed him some sort of backstory, and I may have cared just a little more, but my main issue was what he did or rather didn’t do within the group.  I feel like he had no role or purpose that he served besides being the lone black man.  So, even had they given him a story, would I have cared about him?  I don’t know.

I feel like it’s the nature of the beast that in times of extreme crisis, folks fall into the roles that are expected of them/what they are comfortable with.  When your society/civilization is down to a dozen people, you need someone to fulfill all the generalized roles.  And people are likely going to fill the role that they know.  Your exception in that situation is that Chris cooks and cleans anyway and has generally not much idea about guns, so our roles would likely be slightly reversed in the beginning, but frankly, he’s too proud to be in some subservient role when I was out shooting zombies all day.  But in general, I think the ladies would do a lot of the stuff that their moms taught them to do and the dudes would at least try to protect them.

Richonne (yes, I saw what you did there) would not be some sort of lovey-dovey relationship.  I feel like they would be the kind to be tearing each other’s clothes off and shit.  Almost violent without actually being violent.  And the whole thing would start during to “training” session.  I can just see it now.

They almost have to add any new characters to the group at this point.  It’s even worse to see how many they’ve lost if you go back to the episodes where they are at the camp.  When Carol’s husband was still around and Jim and Jacqui and Amy and there was that whole Hispanic family that just went off by themselves.  And I don’t really care if they added any new characters around this point in the books.  They can make them up for the show.  I mean, the Dixons weren’t in the book and look at how successful they’ve been with that addition.  I think the problem is that viewers are going to stop caring about some tiny, piddly group.  But it doesn’t need to be too big either or it’ll be hard to give everyone enough story time and they’ll be right back into a situation they’ve been in before where there are some characters that you don’t know well enough to give a shit about.  (i.e. all those randoms on the farm.)

At this point, I have no real concrete theory on Andrea.  I’ll just find out what happens to that one when it happens.  She is a big, dumb idiot though.  If I’ve learned anything from Zombieland, it’s the Double Tap.  It works for more than just zombies.

First off, I love calling it Miltonbury and if that’s what happens, it will only be known as that in my world.  Second of all, you may not have seen it, but in 30 Days of Night (the movie and the graphic novel) they have this AMAZING and amazingly effective shot of the vampires attacking the townspeople in such a way that you lose that up-close graphic nature of the killings, but oh, sweet Lord, do you get it.  If the Governor does come back to wreak havoc on Miltonbury, they could use that effect to get their point across and still be able to air it on television.

Also, I read somewhere that Morrissey signed a contract extension, so he’s not going anywhere.  They just need to find something interesting and surprising to do with him.  They’re going to lose me with him if it’s just more seasons of him being all creepy and manipulative and trying to get Michonne.

You for real, need to watch some more zombie movies.  I recommend at the very least the 28 movies and Dawn of the Dead-the remake.  I thought Land of the Dead was pretty cool, but Chris didn’t care for it as much.  What’s cool about the George Romero movies are that most of them are filmed/take place in Pittsburgh because he’s from there.  Anyway, Zombieland started with a tainted burger or something, right?  Also, it may turn out to be lame, but I want to see World War Z big time.  If they can keep even half of the badass stuff from the book, it’ll be epic.  There is one part in particular that I’m hoping makes it in.

The only way I really want to know the cause is if we find out late.  And I don’t want it to be some sort of season long quest to find out what happened.  I want it to be some small discovery that has huge implications and doesn’t overwhelm the entire season’s plot.  I think it would have more of an effect if it was almost some throw-away “discovery.”  Like they have no idea it’s coming and then BOOM, they find out.  It’d knock them all off their axis a little more than if they were trying/expecting to figure it out.

KC: I think it was mostly because he’s the lone black man and they haven’t done a lot with Tyreese yet and the fact that Jacqui opted out. I’m not a super pro-black guy but I still like to see my people get fair treatment every now and again. I guess T-Dog fulfilled his purpose once he dropped the handcuff key and Tyreese will really get more screen time next season. Unless he bites it, which could be one of the shockers we were talking about.

I totally agree with the roles thing. I think it was Andrea (surprise) who was bitching about doing laundry in season 1 but the apocalypse is no time to say, “You know, I know this is the end of the world and all but I think us women deserve to be leaders too and we’re gonna stand up for ourselves” (though I could see Andrea starting that movement). I mean, I would probably be someone’s right hand, I can’t imagine myself in a leadership role, but I wouldn’t want to hide out all day either. And I’m with Chris, I don’t know jack about half of the man stuff I should know, but I can cook my ass off.

Richonne sounds like a romance novel title. But definitely all that steamy, rough stuff. And I could eventually see Carl catching them and losing his shit on his dad about it. Especially since he’s older than I thought and he’s approaching his teenage years. Angel thinks he looks about 12 as well. And he would probably freeze Michonne out and that would bother her since it looked like a bond had been formed after the episode with Morgan this season. And I could see Carl being the reason Richonne ends. I think it starts during an argument. Michonne got reckless but saved herself at the last second. Rick takes her aside to give her shit and then the “f” goes down.

I have a feeling we might encounter that Hispanic family again, probably the father. I could see him in a Morgan kind of way if walkers got his whole family and he survived it. But then again, he would probably opt out if he lost his whole family like that. And the TV characters are way better than the comic ones because in the 50 issues I read, the characters were just becoming worse and worse as they popped up. At least in the show, they try to redeem everyone at some point (see: the Merle episode). I’m definitely a fan of the big group idea as long as everyone gets a little time and it’s not the group and 5 randoms. Like for next season: Rick, Carl, Michonne, Tyreese, Daryl, Beth, Carol, perhaps Milton (if no Miltonbury), and Martinez. That leaves room for a new addition or 2 to start the season with.

The Miltonbury idea has to happen but here’s what I see for it now (unless the Gov does come back to wreck shit and I love the idea of not showing it but conveying it): Milton wants to rebuild society so he’ll find a strong partner to take care of walkers but he’ll start experimenting on them and eventually end up killing the whole population and be this lone human trapped in a “town” of walkers (Walkerbury) and somehow someone in the group helps him escape at the loss of their own life.

I’m glad Morrissey will be back somehow, hopefully it won’t be as another vision for Rick like Lori became this season. I’m trying to think of other things he could do though, other than come back and terrorize everyone. Like, he gets ousted from Woodbury, he’s out there alone, and he stumbles into an abandoned church. He manages to protect it and with nothing else to do he becomes a man on God; the Minster if you will. And when he encounters the group again he convinces them he’s changed but then he starts listening to the voice in head (that he says is the voice of God) and it tells him to kill the sinners. And then he attacks the group. Which means that whole paragraph established nothing, lol.

I’ve wanted to watch the Romero movies forever and I just keep forgetting to put them in the Netflix queue. I definitely have the remake and I’ll check that out soon though. And the 28 series is another one I just haven’t gotten around to watching. It was mad cow that started everything in Zombieland (I had to look it up) but I just can’t see that fitting TWD world. And the more you talk about World War Z, the more anxious I am to read it. And I’ll find the teaser trailer tonight.

I would really like the big reveal to be told in the very last episode but just to the viewers. Have them stumble across something that they don’t pay attention to, but it actually links back to something Jenner said in Season 1. Just slowly reveal everything through the episode but have none of the group understand it because it’s been too long. That would be cool for me. I wouldn’t like a “hunt for the answer” season either because if they find out what happened, that doesn’t bring a cure any closer. Or maybe have just one of them find out but know it’s not gonna matter to anyone else so they do some sort of time capsule dealie with what they know in it and then move on.

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